Law Firm Marketing

Ep 89 – Understanding PR & Marketing for Law Firms

We discuss PR vs marketing, then talk about how lawyers can effectively and ethically manage media relations, PR, and marketing for their firms with lawyer & founder of CopoStrategies, Wayne Pollock.








Should Law Firms Invest In Public Relations?

Today’s Hot Take is from “The Practice: Are Public Relations Firms Still Relevant?” by Brian Tannebaum. He opens with:

“Are public relations firm still relevant? Yes – now go back to whatever you were doing.”

Marketing and PR are different – they tread the same ground sometimes but perform different functions. How you are perceived by the public – in the media, in print – is something that if done right will pay back your investment with dividends.

“What a good PR agent does well is to put you together with the right people and events, and keep you away from the wrong ones. This may mean a one-on-one meeting, a sponsorship at a key event, or making you available to the media.”

Think of it this way  – if your firm is consistently represented as the experts, the “go to” people when there is a legal matter, then clients will seek you out. You won’t have to focus your marketing and advertising efforts on chasing them down, and this is a very good position to be in. It’s a great article, and he ends with:

“While every lawyer in town is running to the so called “digital marketing firms,” consider a public relations firm. You may find it better to actually meet the people that can help you build your business, rather than hope they are pointing and clicking their way to your bank account.”

Managing Media Relations Ethically, Strategically and Proactively During Legal Disputes

Wayne Pollock was a litigator at Deckert LLP, one of the largest and most prominent law firms in the world, with more than 900 attorneys worldwide, and more than $1 billion in annual revenues. In his more than six years at the firm, he obtained favorable outcomes for clients by analyzing and presenting complex legal and factual issues. After leaving Deckert in 2016, and based on his decades of experience engineering positive public relation results for clients, Wayne founded Copo Strategies, where he helps his clients manage media relations ethically, strategically and proactively during legal disputes to this very day. And as if this wasn’t enough – he’s decided to enter the LAWsome court of opinion.

Get More Information About Public Relations For Law Firms

Be sure to listen to the entire podcast episode for information and conversation about PR for law firms done right, ethical considerations for law firm public relations, marketing and more.  If you want more LAWsome subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform, and for the latest in legal marketing insights and information be sure to subscribe to the Consultwebs Newsletter here –>SUBSCRIBE<—


BONUS – How To Create a Law Firm Marketing Strategy

Dispel some common myths and explore the definition of strategy, discover why it’s important to growing your book of business, and then learn how you can create a marketing strategy for your law firm.


Legal Marketing Nutrition Guide –

Marketing Worksheet –

© 2019 Consultwebs


Ep 83 – Persuasion & Influence in Legal Marketing & Advertising

We discuss persuasion and influence in legal marketing & advertising, and The LAWsome Book Club digs into Dr. Robert Cialdini’s, “Pre-Suasion: A Revolutionary Way to Influence & Persuade” to discover the process of arranging for recipients to be receptive to a message before they encounter it.









Reciprocation, Consistency, Social Proof, Authority, Scarcity

Dr. Robert Cialdini has spent his life studying influence and persuasion, he is the Regents’ Professor Emeritus of Psychology and Marketing at Arizona State University and has been a visiting professor of marketing, business and psychology at Stanford University, as well as at the University of California at Santa Cruz.

His 1984 breakout book “Influence – The Psychology of Persuasion” had the premise of the book is that in a complex world where people are overloaded with more information than they can deal with, people fall back on a decision making approach based on generalizations:

Reciprocation, Consistency, Social Proof, Authority, Scarcity.

These generalizations develop because they allow people to usually act in an acceptable manner, with a limited amount of thought and time. However, these generalizations can be exploited and effectively turned into weapons by those who know them to influence others to act certain ways.

The findings in Cialdini’s 1984 book are backed up by numerous empirical studies conducted in the fields of psychology, marketing, economics, anthropology and social science. Building on his research into human behaviors, his 2016 book, “PreSuasion” explains how people can be “Pre-Suaded” to be receptive to a message before they experience it, via context and cues that work in concert with the generalisations he discovered in the 80s, namely that optimal persuasion is achieved only through optimal pre-suasion. In other words, to change “minds” a pre-suader must also change “states of mind.”

SO in this episode, we are going to cover what PreSuasion is – provide a few examples – and then outline ways you can use it in your law firm.

Learn more about  the book – and Dr. Caldini – HERE

Ep 81 – How Lawyers Leverage Their Law Firms Intake & Referrals

We talk about what sets a world-class intake department apart from the forgettable crowd, and then we chat with Maddy Martin from Smith AI about intake, marketing, referrals and law firm growth.








5 Qualities That Define a World-Class Law Firm Intake Department

Today’s Hot Take is from, “5 Qualities That Define a World-Class Law Firm Intake Department, ” by Jim Farrin.  Here’s the list:

1 – They take training seriously
2 – They provide quality experience
3 – Easily ID and prioritize leads
4 – Excel at workflow management
5 – Find cases they didn’t know they had

Everyone is sold on diets, mindful eating, living stress-free – it’s all about attention. But when it comes to business, it’s more about raw survival, so you don’t pay attention – you just act!

Intake specialists, thinking of it like sales, training staff, doing what and Maddy talk about – that’s how you become more healthy with your marketing and sales – you pay attention, you become mindful. Items 3 + 4  on the list are key here – these are the top-of-the-top reasons why to hire pros for intake – these are not skills that can be easily taught and WILL translate into making money or losing money right on the first call.

Excellence in Digital Marketing, Audience Building, and Business Development for Law Firms

Maddy Martin is the head of growth and education at, a superior receptionist service for live calls & website chat. She has spent the last decade directing the marketing efforts of a diverse range of companies, helping them achieve their goals by applying her excellence in digital marketing, audience building, and business development. But it is her work at Smith-ai that brought her to the podcast today and we are so grateful she could join us.

Learn more about Maddy and Smith.AI

SPECIAL – For LAWsome Listeners – sign up with Smith.AI using the code “LAWSOME50” for a special introductory rate – $50 off first month of calls or chats– Don’t Wait >>>>

Get More Information About Law Firm Intake, Marketing and Branding for Lawyers

Be sure to listen to the entire podcast episode for information and conversation about marketing, intake and improving the bottom line for law firms.  If you want more LAWsome subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform, and for the latest in legal marketing insights and information be sure to subscribe to the Consultwebs Newsletter here –>SUBSCRIBE<—






Ep 78 Law Firm Development & Marketing

We discuss legal business development trends and then we talk to Lauren Currin the Founder & President of Lawyers Marketing Associates about strategies and marketing approaches to help grow your firm.







How Do Law Firms Invest In Sales & Growth?

Today’s Hot Take is from called “5 Top Takeaways From Ackert’s 2018 Legal Business Development Trends Study,” by Adam Draper. Law firms struggling to earn new business and stay profitable and facing two typical options. There’s the traditional route, increasing rates and slashing expenses Or there’s the path shown to deliver stronger growth: investing more heavily in business development strategies. Adam consolidates the takeaways in to 5 points:

1. Coaching, Education Drive Revenue – Sales and business development coaching was the no. 1 most successful tactic for law firms of any size. This included one-on-one coaching, group trainings, online seminars, presentations, and outsourced business development consulting.

2. Make the Most of Your Client Relationships – ask clients for new business.

3. Collaboration Breeds Success – cross selling – leveraging your firm’s existing relationships

4. Get Out From Behind Your Desk – human relationships are still the foundation of business success

5. It’s Time to Shake Up Legal Business Development – If legal practices want to grow their firms, it’s clear that the industry as a whole is underinvesting and underperforming in terms of their marketing and business development strategies.

ALL of this is part of a marketing strategy – ALL of this is covered in Laurens ScoreCard, ALL of this is too much for one person to handle. We talk later about dreams versus reality in marketing and law firm development – these are all great points, but if you don’t have a guide, like Lauren, or some agency you believe in to help implement and maintain these tactics, it’s gonna be another 10 minute trip to the gym.

Helping Lawyers And Law Firms Expand Their Business And Grow Their Firms

Lauren Currin is the Founder & President of Lawyers Marketing Associates, a law firm development consulting agency that helps law firms grow by analyzing strengths/gaps to solve issues and develop definable, realistic and attainable goals. Lauren got her JD from Campbell Law University and she has managed to combine her law degree and legal experience with a long-time love of business development to create a career she loves. It’s this love and light and long term relationship with Consultwebs that brought her to the attention of the show

Learn more about Lauren Currin & Lawyers Marketing Associates

Get More Information About Marketing and Business Development for Lawyers

Be sure to listen to the entire podcast episode for information and conversation about marketing, business development, law firm growth and more.  If you want more LAWsome subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform, and for the latest in legal marketing insights and information be sure to subscribe to the Consultwebs Newsletter here –>SUBSCRIBE<—



BONUS – Will Marketing & Advertising Cheapen My Law Firm?

legal marketing podcast

What does effective law firm advertising look like?

What do lawyers really think of lawyer advertisements?

What’s the key to making marketing & advertising that gets your law firm noticed?


READ THE BLOG –…en-my-law-firm/

Ep 71 – Measuring Marketing ROI in Your Law Firm

Today we talk about what’s measurable and what isn’t when it comes to legal marketing and then we chat with Consultwebs VP of Business Development Tanner Jones about measuring ROI in your law firm.







Measureable vs Non-Measurable Marketing & Sales Activities

Today’s Hot Take takes a different path than we normally do –  instead of an article we’re headed to YouTube. The video we discuss is from Charles Gaudet of Predictable Profits, called “The Case For Non-Measurable Marketing & Sales Activities.” 

It’s a hard truth in the advertising and marketing world that sometimes the ROI is not 100% clear. Raising awareness for your firm may include advertising, organic posts, marketing, social outreach, podcasts, networking, tweets, staff meetings, surveys, videos, newsletters, strategies, campaigns, seminars, and significant investments of time, money, sweat, and tears.

So what’s the ROI on all that? Shouldn’t you be able to draw a clear line from marketing efforts to revenue? And if you can’t, doesn’t that mean it doesn’t work?

Charles Gaudet explains that solid marketing strategies contain 80% measurable activities, (things that are direct response, strong CTAs, trackable, and scalable) and 20% non-measurable activities, (things that ensure awareness, strengthen relationships, or help to establish your brand over time).

Measuring marketing’s effectiveness is an essential aspect of success, but knowing what to measure, and what can’t be measured, is the secret to staying in the game.

Effective Marketing Strategies for Law Firms

Tanner Jones is Vice President of Business Development at Consultwebs. He’s passionate about law firm marketing and helps his clients understand how effective, unique marketing strategies can expand their presence, expand their business, and ultimately connect them with more clients. Tanner got his Bachelor’s degree in Business Admin and Management from Berea College, has worked as a Student Advisor, Sales Associate, Marketing Director, and now brings his unique set of skills to the LAWsome Podcast.

Learn More about Tanner Jones

“I encourage firms to determine shared benchmarks.”

In this excerpt from the podcast Jake and Paul talk with Tanner about understanding your firm’s unique value, understanding your competition, gathering market data and then using all this information to your advantage: 

Jake: It’s a recurring theme on the show, knowing what you want and then asking for it. And I think a lot of people are just asking for things and not sure what they’re asking for. It comes to, essentially, the idea of strategy, you mentioned that there. And I think a lot of lawyers are convinced with marketing and advertising for their firm, they know they have to pay for it. But there’s still this disconnect on strategy which can make measuring return on investment shaky. So, you know, people are saying, “I know I need cases.” Some people are saying,”It’s not even important how much money I spend, just go, just go get it.” But how do you help clients focus their ambitions and get realistic about their marketing investments?

Tanner: Everyone’s different. I just got through saying you can’t be all things to all people. You have to identify who you are. So that’s step one. Understanding really, truly what makes you different. It’s funny, everyone’s stressing the same things, or it seems like. You can go to one law firm website in this market and turn around and go to another law firm website in another market and it’s likely some of the top level messaging that you receive is going to be the exactly same. Everyone’s just rip off, rip off and repeat. They’re trying to say the same things to everyone. So that’s step one, truly understanding who you are and what separates you.

The next piece is ultimately competition. Depending on the practice areas, depending on the market area, competition is either going to be fierce to the point of maybe you need to find another practice. Like it’s so saturated that you could spend, you know, tens of thousands of dollars on the web and still not come close to breaking even. Admittedly, there are certain markets starting to become that way, whereas there are some that are the polar opposite, there are definitely soft markets throughout this country based on market and market size and population, but also practice area.

So know the competition. Competition, ultimately, is what drives costs, drives expenses for marketing. If it’s a soft market, you have an opportunity to get in at a reasonable price and actually start to secure clients at a reasonable expectation in terms of cost per case, which we’ll talk about here after a while. But I think competition is definitely something you want to look at and determine…once you’ve determined your UVP, determine does it make sense to even pursue this, based on competition?

I encourage firms to determine shared benchmarks. And what I mean by that is, shared benchmarks between you, the firm, and whoever it is that you’re working with on your marketing, whether that’s an individual, a consultant, a marketing agency, whoever it may be, really have honest conversations about what are we trying to achieve together, because otherwise you’re going to be flying blind. You set yourself and your agency up for failure, if you’re not having those early conversations about what are we truly trying to accomplish. And not just general or even vanity metrics, I’m talking about the ones that actually make an impact on your business. Cost per lead, cost per case. And if an agency or consultant’s not able to have that conversation with you, I’m not suggesting that you walk away from them, but you should definitely work to understand why. Why don’t they have that context?

Get More Information About Measuring Marketing ROI In Your Law Firm

Be sure to listen to the entire podcast episode for more information and conversation about online marketing, marketing investment measurement and what questions you should be looking for answers to in your marketing data.  If you want more LAWsome subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform, and for the latest in legal marketing insights and information be sure to subscribe to the Consultwebs Newsletter here –>SUBSCRIBE<—


Ep 68 – Eat Your Greens!

We talk about strategy vs tactics and how marketing can grab the wheel, then we dig in with author & international master-marketer,  Wiemer Snijders, to talk about the book “Eat Your Greens,” and learn how lawyers can grow their brands. 








Marketing Strategy vs Tactics

Today’s Hot Take comes to us from,“Marketing Strategy vs Tactics (The difference & why it matters)” by Ben Breen. It makes a good point about the difference between the big picture and close-up viewpoints of marketing. Ben writes:

“Strategy is being confused with tactics, and it’s all to the detriment of effective marketing.

What is strategy?
Strategy is the combination of things you need to do to hit one or more objectives, limited by time and resources. It’s what you set out to do to achieve some desired outcome with constrained resources over a specific timeframe.

What is a tactic?
A tactic is a technique, tool or method you will adopt do to hit a ‘measurable result’. In other words, a tactic makes no sense if you don’t know why you’re doing it. A tactic is meaningless and worse than useless unless it’s tied to an objective with measurable results.
As Sun Tzu said: tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.”

Bringing Clarity to a Jumbled Marketing Picture

Wiemer Snijders is an author, editor, marketing consultant legend, and now Partner of The Commercial Works – a UK & Netherlands-based marketing firm focused on brand growth, where they bring tools to capture and sustain value while balancing volume and profit. After reading his 2018 book Eat Your Greens, a cornucopia of fact-based essays from the best minds in marketing today, it was clear we needed to have him on the show to help translate some of the commercial marketing insights for the legal audience.

Wiemer Snijders

On Marketing Messages and Entry Points

In this excerpt from the podcast Jake and Paul talk with Wiemer about the Texas Law Hawk, getting ads noticed, connecting with your audience and “entry points”: 

Wiemer: …this is a very simple reminder, I guess, in terms of what marketing needs to be about. You need to be noticed. You need to be easy to buy. And you need to be “thought worthy.” And, you know, it’s sort of a very simple thing. But it really is about that. In terms of being noticed, so [for example] the legal hawk. Was it…?

Jake: The Texas Law Hawk.

Wiemer: Texas Law Hawk, there you go. So, you know, that will be noticed. But, there’s many other ways of just making sure that you are being noticed and that could simply be the fact that you are advertising… But you need to make sure that people pay attention to the ad. An ad that’s not being…you know, if nobody pays attention to your ads, you might as well not advertise, obviously. So, you will have to think about how you will be noticed. How the ad itself will be noticed, but you don’t have to do crazy things. I think also, because I don’t know it, I wonder to what extent firms sort of research and investigate what comes to mind when people think of their industry or their category. So, one of the things that people think about when they think of not necessarily a law firm, but even a little bit more specific. Can you guys give me a specific area?

Jake: Yeah, personal injury.

Wiemer: So, what do people think of when they think of personal injury and any legal matters related to that? You know, one of the things that people think of and to what extent are you putting those things into your messages, it’s the idea of category entry points. That’s how Byron Sharp and Jenni Romaniuk call them. But just what do people think of when you think of what you can offer them? And maybe not so much because I think a lot of service advertising is very much about,”This is who we are. We’ve been here for 100 years. And look, we’re really good at this stuff.” And it’s a very inside-out way of reasoning or just telling people what the firm can do for you. But I do wonder whether there might be some value in just addressing a little bit more of the things that people know…what their clients actually say or think when they think of that category. That will make it more relevant.

Get More Information About Brand Development For Law Firms

Be sure to listen to the entire podcast episode for more information and conversation about advertising, marketing and strategy for law firms and more.  If you want more LAWsome subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform, and for the latest in legal marketing insights and information be sure to subscribe to the Consultwebs Newsletter here –>SUBSCRIBE<—


Ep 64 – SEO For Law Firms

We talk about Search Engine Optimization and how lawyers can use it for their firms, then we discuss digital marketing with THE Neil Patel.







 SEO Basics for Legal Digital Marketing

Today’s Hot Take comes from our ouw Consultwebs blog- SEO Basics for Legal Digital Marketing by Rachel Harmon. SEO is the front end of the conversion funnel. You want to guide people to your site by ranking well for relevant terms, but these days content and links don’t guarantee success. It is a long walk not a short sprint, and you need to go after some easy wins to build the momentum you need – this article gives an long but thorough list – YAY – of tactics you can use to start picking up those easy wins.

The Man Who Is Everywhere On The Internet.

Neil Patel is a NYT best selling author, has co-founded such successful digital marketing companies as Crazy Egg, Kissmetrics, has worked to grow notable companies like Amazon, NBC, Viacom, was named as one of the top 100 entrepreneurs by President Obama and the United Nations, is currently CEO of the Neil Patel marketing agency, helping businesses get more traffic and found on the web – and as if that wasn’t enough, Neil adds one more link to the chain with an appearance on the LAWsome podcast.

“Keep in mind, your customer isn’t a lawyer.”

In this excerpt from the podcast Jake and Paul talk with Neil about content marketing and writing for conversions as well as brand safety in light of recent revelations regarding privacy protection (or the lack of) on social media platforms:

Jake: Giving away expertise. It seems like that’s a theme in your work and it’s a barrier for lawyers in marketing. If people want the goods, they got to pay for it. So, what’s your philosophy here? And how can it apply to marketing in the legal profession?

Neil: Yeah, so in the legal profession, and it’s funny, I’ve worked with so many law firms and lawyers over the years, even the big sites, like the FindLaws of the world that are driving traffic, or LegalZoom, although LegalZoom is more so competing, but FindLaw is driving traffic to other lawyers. And the big thing that we found is lawyers want to write too technical content. Like if you want to do well in the law space, whether it’s business law, or DUI-related, or personal injury, whatever it may be, write simple content that everyone else can understand. Keep in mind, your customer isn’t a lawyer. So, if you’re writing content that’s above their head and too technical, and they’re not going to understand it, you’re not going to generate a lead.

Paul: Totally, that’s it. And, so we talk a lot too to lawyers about different platforms being more social, being more kind of like you said, trying to get down and not talking over people’s heads. But something that comes up a lot that we see is with regards to Facebook, so there’s, you know, these privacy violations, and data breaches, and then there’s brand safety concerns, like on YouTube. If you’re putting it out there, how do you personally deal with protecting your digital assets? And what advice do you give to your clients?

Neil: Yeah. So, you’re talking about you put your brand out there, you have your own assets, you know, people are going to end up taking…they’re going to abuse them, use them. And it’s funny, a lot of lawyers want to sue over it. I look at is it’s okay, they take your content, they link back to you, it’s driving your traffic. If they take your assets, they mention you, they don’t have your permission, but they’re linking to you, and they’re mentioning you, it’s extra free press. Removing those things or letting people have them doesn’t really do much of a difference. If they use them, you know, and instead of telling them to remove them, or trying to charge them a fee for it, try to get them to mention you. It’s so much easier because you’re getting extra brand awareness and traffic versus getting people to take it down or trying to charge them a fee. And you know, when you try charging them a fee or going after them, most of the times you’re not going to get much if anything anyways.

Get More Information About SEO for Law Firms And Legal Marketing

Be sure to listen to the entire podcast episode for more information and conversation about legal marketing, seo and local seo for lawyers and more.  If you want more LAWsome subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform, and for the latest in legal marketing insights and information be sure to subscribe to the Consultwebs Newsletter here –>SUBSCRIBE<—



Ep 63 – Listening, Leadership, and Legal Marketing

We talk about law firm culture and then interview CMO, published author, and legal marketing superstar Deborah Farone, to find out how successful law firm leaders are creating and developing firm cultures to encourage business development.

law firm management








That’s The Way It’s Done – Why ‘Preserving Culture’ Can be Stifling Innovation in Law Firms

Today’s Hot Take comes to us from Above the Law – The ‘Culture Card’ In Law Firms by James Goodnow. It has a great example from Zappos about dramatically changing culture, but also makes the point for building a strong, dependable system that can be relied up by new hires. However, far too often culture is invoked as a barrier or reason to NOT make a change, even though the outcome could be positive. James writes:

“Invoking a law firm’s culture to shut down experimentation and new ideas doesn’t just preserve the existing culture, whatever that may be. It inculcates a deeper culture into the firm, one of fear, stasis, and decay. You can’t have a firm culture if your firm doesn’t survive. Everything about the world of legal business is up for grabs in the coming years. Resistance to change is no longer just stodgy — it’s swiftly becoming an existential threat.

Whether culture is a good or bad thing depends on where you find it. In museums and art galleries, culture means intelligence, refinement, and beauty. In a lab, culture means a plate of mold. Culture should be something that drives a law firm to grow, not something that grows over a law firm’s corpse.”

Great article, check it out here:

Positioning Yourself for Success

As the chief marketing officer at two of the world’s most successful law firms, Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP and Debevoise & Plimpton LLP, and as a national marketing professional at a global management consultancy, Deborah Farone has honed the skills of professional services marketing and communications. In addition to her highly regarded work in the communications counseling and crisis management spheres, she has established and led marketing efforts for the consulting, advertising and public relations professions. Ms. Farone was nominated by her peers as the first recipient of the Legal Marketing Association’s Legacy Award in recognition of her contribution to the profession. We are  excited to have published author and legal marketing superstar Deborah Farone on the LAWsome podcast today.


“Leadership is very key, both in creating a good culture and a good environment in a firm, but also in the marketing of the firm.”

In this excerpt from the podcast Jake and Paul talk with Deborah about the role leadership plays in firm culture and marketing, and the difference between management and leadership:

Jake: Talking about brand and law firm culture, a lot of people want to get the culture right. They’re not sure if that’s their brand or what the strategy is. So do you think what happens internally at a law firm, personalities, leadership, does that get reflected externally and defines the brand? Or is a brand what clients say about the firm? What’s your take on culture and brand right off?

Deborah: I think it’s what everyone says about the culture. I think the culture really is the brand. And regardless of how good you are at creating a wonderful website, or brochures, or any of your materials, or your social media, it’s really what people say, and what’s out there in the ether that’s going to make the difference. So it’s a combination of how you treat your clients and what your clients think of you, how you treat your lawyers, and in particular, how you treat your staff. All these people out there talking, they’re going to create a buzz about your firm that’s much more powerful than anything someone sees online.

Jake: Wow. Well, and I think that we get kind of sidetracked about client experience. You’ve got the clients and “The clients are always right,” and it feels like in some way we serve the clients more than our staff. And I think that  management or somebody who’s keen on that can stick up for their staff. And that’s actually part of the marketing. That’s a really great aspect that I don’t think a lot of people get….that’s a great point.

So talking about relating to the staff and making sure they do what they’re supposed to be doing. Coming up with plans and strategies, it seems like at a lot of legal seminars, there’s a lot of lawyers and law firm owners absorbing a lot of the information and then once they get back into their law firms, it’s back to their hair on fire. I’m just wondering, in regards to that branding and making sure your staff feels taken care of, what part of marketing strategy do you feel is getting missed? Because a lot of law firms are going to these marketing seminars, but not a lot of them are doing anything about the information that they get. You know,  you’ve written books about this stuff. You keep writing books about this, so how do you think law firms can make like realistic marketing plans and strategies, and then execute them with their staff?

Deborah: Well, I think the leadership is so important in these firms, right? Because not only are the leaders the ones telling folks what they expect of their role models and so if you see leaders in the firm treating their clients well, treating their staff well, treating their associates well, and their partners well, that’s going to send a stronger message than any kind of written mission statement that you have. You know, good leaders are not easy to find,  just because someone has risen to a senior position in a law firm, it might mean that they’re a good manager, but it might also mean that they’re not a good leader. And those two skills are very, very different. And I think you need good leadership to have a good culture. But I also think, tying into your other question, because I think there were two questions in there in a way.

Jake: Sorry.

Deborah: No, no, that’s a good question. It’s a good way of asking it. I think leadership is very important in marketing, because you need to have a plan, you need to have hopefully a strategic plan for a law firm at this point. But if not, you need to have practice and department plans. But in order to get those done, a firm needs a strong leader who’s going to be committed to that plan, help sell that plan internally, and make sure that the partners who follow that plan are compensated based on those behaviors that the plan really honors and wants to develop. So I think leadership is very key, both in creating a good culture and a good environment in a firm, but also in the marketing of the firm.

Get More Information About Listening, Leadership and Legal Marketing

Be sure to listen to the entire podcast episode for more information and conversation about legal culture, leadership and law firm marketing. If you want more LAWsome subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform, and for the latest in legal marketing insights and information be sure to subscribe to the Consultwebs Newsletter here –>SUBSCRIBE<—